Covid vaccine

See I have not seen that is more disrespectful, insolidaria and selfish than the position of non -vaccines, you only talk about my right, my body, my freedom, you give you scientific reasons ..... of common meaning ....Historical details, it doesn't matter .... I .... I ... me and why me.That would have happened to the tetanus vaccine and many others if people think how you ,,,, if millions die do not put it on, if no one dies and it is effective if I wear it .... what are you waiting for?Let's see if we die or we get horns not to put it on?or if our hair grows up and we don't die if you wear it?

Yesssica_a said:
@Alberto_13 of the rest of vaccines approved today if we know that data, it is as easy as going to the page of the Spanish Association of Vaccination and Search for each vaccine.There you can see efficiency, safety, adverse effects, information about the disease that protects you ... and thus assess the risk/benefit in each person of each vaccine.The flu does not put everyone just because of that, the risk/benefit of some vaccines does not compensate in some people.

Effectiveness of the vaccines you have put (Source Spanish Association of Vaccination):

- Tuberculosis: around 60-80%
- Tetanos: It is estimated that the clinical efficacy of the tetanus toxoid is 100%.
- Flu: according to published studies, in young and healthy people protection will be around 70-80% when the vaccination virus correlates with the circulating virus, but the effectiveness of the vaccine is not really known until the season has elapsedGripal.

And I add vaccine safety data:

- Tetanos: The tetanus toxoid is considered a very safe vaccine.
- Tuberculosis: The BCG vaccine is one of the safer, endorsed by its systematic use over almost 100 years, but it is also one of the most rectogenic and leaves scar on the site of its inoculation in most vaccinated
- Flu: flu vaccines are very safe and well tolerated.

The problem with that of the COVID is that all these data still do not have them because it is an unveiled vaccine (emergency use) and there is no long -term data to know safety and effectiveness.Then you are putting on an experimental vaccine, which perfect who wants to put it, but they would have to explain things well and not chase those who do not want to put the body something that we do not know what it does and what nobody is responsible.It is like participating in a clinical study but without the coverage you have in the studies.
This year is just out of this year and there are about 80 more deaths a day of average of unknown origin (they are not Covid).It is not known to be due but it is a coincidence that just when you start vaccinating this looks.
and then you know many people who from the vaccine have a number of problems that go to the doctor and do not record them and do not give importance.They are almost told that they are crazy and psychological. and that is not science, in all medications the possible effects to study them are recorded and see if the media is safe or not.

And leaving aside all this, everyone has the right to decide on their own body.That is basically what those who are not in favor of forcing to vaccinate (regardless of whether we have vaccinated or not).If we renounce our rights for fear of a virus we can end very badly.I will always defend the right to decide from each one, agree or not with their decision.And staying at home if you do not vaccine you do not seem good to me, one thing is that they do not let you enter certain places and another that you have to lock yourself at home.In the street, infection is almost impossible if there is distance.

ruthbia said:
there is no more blind than the one who does not want to see.

Vaccination does not prevent the transmission of the virus.
Hospitals of people vaccinated with both doses are filled.All newspapers are bombing this information.

Vaccination decreases the severity of those who develop COVID, but it does not prevent it from spreading or dying (the least), especially because without vaccine or with vaccine there are many asymptomatic people.

You do not have to stay at home, you have to make normal life, with the relevant pre -cuts and return to random PCRs to detect asymptomatic.

Gravity decreases if it takes effect, and there is a very high percentage (said by health friends) to those who do not take effect ...
And yes, I continue with all possible precautions, mask out of home, ventilation in the insti (pulmony for the bug no, but by cold I do not know), handwashing ...

alberto_13 said:

Neither I consider myself disrespectful, neither insolidaria nor selfish @alberto_13.
Maybe I have not vaccinated because I have read a lot about what is injection is going to do in the not too distant future.
From the heart I wish all those who have punctured.

vanessa30 said:

alberto_13 said:

Neither I consider myself disrespectful, neither insolidaria nor selfish @alberto_13.
Maybe I have not vaccinated because I have read a lot about what is injection is going to do in the not too distant future.
From the heart I wish all those who have punctured.

You have to read a lot, if but of all opinions, they say in my land that the one who pica garlic eats :): D
Health and long life for you too.

For the way, to say in a diabetic forum .... from the heart I wish the best to all those who have punctured you.... Has Guasa: D: D: D

@Alberto_13 It is that if the vaccine only protects the one who puts it I do not see the need for so much persecution.If I want to risk dying is my problem, not that of the rest.It was only missing that the decision on what I do with my body was from other people.The fundamental rights of others must be respected.If we renounce our rights so easily for fear in the end we will end up in a dictatorship that is much worse than the virus.

And do you also think of insolidaria not vaccinate children (which does not affect Covid)?Insolidary is risking the problems that the vaccine can give them to protect others when they do not affect the virus.That a child dies or has problems with the rest of his life because of the vaccine to save old people seems to me a barbarity.And on top of that they do not save anyone because vaccinated also infect and surely they will also be asymptomatic as without vaccine.
What happens is that the authorities do not care about our health, they move for other interests and are willing to sacrifice whoever.
If they worried about our health, they would tell us that we ate healthy, we are responsibly exposed to the sun and/or take vitamin D supplements to have optimal levels, we sleep enough, respect the circadian rhythms, be in contact with nature and control the stress.All that makes us have a strong immune system and we defend ourselves better from the virus (with or without vaccine).But have you seen that in some newspaper or official recommendation say that?When there are studies that have been done during the COVID (especially with vitamin D) that people with better levels recover better and have a less serious or asymptomatic covid.But of course all these things do not benefit anyone and do not interest.
If the authorities worry about our health, they would have given us all those recommendations since the pandemic began (or before to be healthy in general, not only now that this virus is) and then when the vaccines leave they would give us the information without manipulating and respecting and respectingour right to put it or not without pressing.That one thing is that they advise to put it, which seems good and logical and another the persecution that is being done.That almost non -vaccinated are the cause of all the evils of the world.
I do not know if you realize how insolidaria it is that you say that the unvaccinated ones remain at home.You want to force a person to live enclosed by renouncing their fundamental rights, that is insolidario and total dictatorship.That was done by the Nazis with the Jews, began generating hatred of the rest of the population and blaming them for all the problems and looks at how they ended.Then we wondered how Hitler could win an elections and as he could do what he did without anyone saying anything, but right now we are going the same path and most seems good.You see normal to deal with someone just because they are demanding that their rights be respected.You look good that they are forced to stay locked at home.That they are forced to get something in their body against their will because the majority has decided.To my more fear that the virus gives me everything that is happening with the theme of the vaccine, the same when we want to open our eyes we are already with the water around my neck and there is no turning back.

alberto_13 said:

Well, you can also say those who chase the unvaccinated ones who are "sectarian", "repressors", "totalitarian", "dictators" .... They believe they are above good and evil.

I insisted on the freedom of each one to choose what he wants for himself within the rule of law and under the protection of the constitution that regulates us.

Those who have to stay at home are those who are afraid of Covid, who live in their bubble and protect themselves, but let others live.

Buaaaa how well the forum is, it is that I do not know who to give the reason 🤣🤣 you all argue very well your reasons !!

ruthbia said:

alberto_13 said:

Well, you can also say those who chase the unvaccinated ones who are "sectarian", "repressors", "totalitarian", "dictators" .... They believe they are above good and evil.

I insisted on the freedom of each one to choose what he wants for himself within the rule of law and under the protection of the constitution that regulates us.

Those who have to stay at home are those who are afraid of Covid, who live in their bubble and protect themselves, but let others live.

Who is chasing the unvaccinated, do not fabules and not be populist. If you want to die for my great, but the bad thing is that while you do a hospital or ICU bed for several months, while others dieCitizens with other pathologies that cannot be properly served by system saturation, how many people have died with pending operations during the pandemic? How many for cancer without treating or without detecting it in time?, etc ... etc ... yourYou have the right to die and I to live. The children's vaccine I agree with you, I do not see the need.Insolidario is the non -vaccinated one who hopes to see what happens to the vaccinated to see if we die or not or if we get horns and if everything goes well, it is insolidary or not?Irresponsible is the unvaccinated that interacts socially, sometimes without distances and without a mutachage that you see in Puñaos, in restaurants, bars and other sites.
When I say you stay at home, it is not literal, I am exaggerating, but if I refer to limiting football, cinema, leaving copitas etc ... and I don't say it alone, says all of Europe and stop Nazis and othershorror movies.Finally, tell you that you have all the rights you want, while not collisions with those of others, by the way also says this the Constitution.

If I opt for Alberto_13 I get more arguments !! 👍🏻

Well, as you have already indicated above, I cannot understand how in a photo of diabetics, in which many are alive thanks to advances in medicine, the effectiveness of the work of an entire scientific community can be questionedthat the horns are leaving us to get us out of it.I beef because I believe in that work and for responsibility with the rest of the people.

@Alberto_13 is that forcing someone is also colliding their rights.A non -vaccinated is not removing any right to those vaccinated but all those who want to limit the mobility of the unvaccinated or even force to vaccinate because if they are colliding with the rights of those people.
And the unvaccinated ones do not take it written in the face so that you say that you see them without a mask and without social distance.If you have an acquaintance who does it, the rest cannot be generalized.I have known vaccinated people who go there as if they were immune and not why I say that the vaccinated are irresponsible.Irresponsible are those in particular that I know not all.
I out of respect for others (among other things) use mask whenever there are people nearby even if it is not mandatory, I put it on when a delivery man arrives to give me a package, when I go to each of someone and of course in bars and other places thatIt is mandatory by law.I am being totally responsible and supportive taking social distancing measures, but I am not willing to die or have serious effects all my life to save others.There are many other people who for their actions saturate hospitals and we do not persecute them or call them insolidaries.All people who do not take care of themselves, who smoke, drink, eat fatal, etc. overcome the health system and nobody says that they have to force them to change their habits because they are in their right to do so.

@Carussa I believe in medicine, vaccines and science, one thing has nothing to do with another.But I also question things, I read, investigate and then I get my own conclusions, I do not blindly fly from what someone says, no matter how doctor or scientific.Pharmaceuticals do not get medications or vaccines to help us, they do it to earn money.And to prevent them from selling anything there are a series of controls to see what comes to the market.Today Covid vaccines are not approved like the rest of vaccines and there are no sufficient data to know what effects they will have in the future.Even with existing controls many medications are removed from the market after a time of use because serious adverse effects are seen.I do not want to use a vaccine or medication in which the risk/benefit I think does not compensate for me and I only defend my right to do so.I do not tell the rest what they have to do, each one is free to decide what they want.And it doesn't matter whether or not we are diabetic, there each one will have to assess their risk/benefit and see what it does.

@Yessica_a I cannot lead the letter, as I usually do it, with a "estimate", because you will understand that it is not the case.A more forceful friend who tells me that he hopes that I receive the present you are very bad, affected by the coronavirus and that you have to pay the medical attention of your pocket, isolating you from the world as the ancient lepersstupidity prevents that innocent infects and cause their death.I am going to moderate my letter a bit to simply ask you for reflections, and based on scientific and empirical information, you are vaccinated by you, your family, and for all others.
My friend is written dramatic and misunderstanding letters of inhabitants of Sudan, Mozambique, Nigeria and many other tremendously poor countries in the world where they do not have access to this or other vaccines, asking him how there can be someone so ....@ and that you allow those barbarities not to be vaccinated in a western world, enormously rich compared to yours, where if you fall sick you will be treated in hospitals and UCIS of high medical level, which they do not dream there.
Neither my friend nor I understand as an irresponsibility exercise that can affect third parties can be taken by someone without any scientific, medical, epidemiological, empirical, reasonable, etc.Beyond the ... that is typical of a certain percentage of the human species, which is indeed inevitable.Million's question is what we do with these individuals when that decision affects third people causing tremendous damage or death.
My friend wants you to be charged with reckless homicide, since it is the one that is committed when the death of another person is produced by the imprudence of a subject by having infringed the objective and subjective duty of care that was enforceable.I do not know if any judge could reach it, but in the definition it gives the impression that the circumstances contemplated for that case do.
It is said that it is not possible to force anyone to vaccinate for a matter of rights and legality.In the same way I am surprised that I am forced to drink five glasses and take the car when I can do it because I feel like it and I am in my right.It is true that I put my life and that of others at risk, but the same goes for the vaccine and it is not mandatory to put it on.Of course in the first case it is absorbed by the intestine and in the second at the subcutaneous level, perhaps there lies the essence of the legality or not of each case.There are also those who doubt the Covid passport, but they tell me that the passport to enter a country or the driving card for it is mandatory, and it does not seem that it violates our rights.
Without another particular, we are waiting for you to rectify your serious mistake.

SAYS SR: @COVID19 !!The denialists give me a lot of life

@Alberto_13 With your arguments we should not give assistance to smokers, drug addicts, bulimic, anorexic, obese, diabetics, etc, etc, etc.Because according to those who do not take care of the system and have no right to public health.
That is demagogy.

In Europe there are altercations in Belgica, Brussels, the United Kingdom, Italy and other countries against the mandatory vaccine to attend work.Now you will tell me that the news lies.

I advocate for the freedom of each and respect for all.

Vaccinate if you want.By the way, tetanus expires at 10 years and if you were born before 1986 you lack the chickenpox, measles and papers.

It is incredible to read in what powerful way the "paid" information has absorbed your head.
These vaccines are experimental, in the prospects they say it, just like TB say they are not responsible for the possible derived effects.
It is each other's decision to make guinea pig.
For my part and in my body, I don't authorize it.

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Well, here each one makes their decision with their arguments and no one is going to convince anyone.
What I hope is that this virus mutates humans in a mild way or that they get a sterilizing and definitive vaccine.
We will have to be lucky and protect ourselves, while.
It is also true that if it were not for vaccines, mortality would have triggered, for many protection measures that we had, and not only because of the COVID, but for many other diseases that would remain without diagnosing and without treating.

This is becoming a thread of conspiranoic/as, kamicazes, thirds and stubborn, so abandonment, luck and health for all, all and all and all

The subject here is, as Regina says, nobody is going to convince anyone.This is like talking about football, politics or religion.
What I know, unfortunately, from experience, is that when you die a young friend for Covid (before the vaccine comes out) the wolf's ears are seen.
But in the end, there each with their decisions and hopefully the issue is fixed and let's see it soon as a distant nightmare ...